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Hey everyone, first post, old school raver of course...
I'd like to know what some of you think happened to stop the rave momentum.
Was it police crackdowns on raves, too much irresponsible drug use, too much
commercial influence or a combination of things. As a psychologist I try to find out why people are drawn to
raves and equally why many are dissatisfied after a time. Many I have met simply feel that they
have grown out of it, that it was a youthful social experiment to be discarded after a certain age.
Others see it as a life-altering experience that leads them to further explore alternate ways of living.
Is this group an argument against the idea that raving is an age- based experience?
Do you encounter much resistance from younger people, do they see you as intruding upon
their clique or do you feel welcomed into the general rave community, ( whatever there is of one.)
I am curious about why some of you are still interested in raves, even though raving seems
to be somewhat different than it was.
I'd like to know what some of you think happened to stop the rave momentum.
Was it police crackdowns on raves, too much irresponsible drug use, too much
commercial influence or a combination of things. As a psychologist I try to find out why people are drawn to
raves and equally why many are dissatisfied after a time. Many I have met simply feel that they
have grown out of it, that it was a youthful social experiment to be discarded after a certain age.
Others see it as a life-altering experience that leads them to further explore alternate ways of living.
Is this group an argument against the idea that raving is an age- based experience?
Do you encounter much resistance from younger people, do they see you as intruding upon
their clique or do you feel welcomed into the general rave community, ( whatever there is of one.)
I am curious about why some of you are still interested in raves, even though raving seems
to be somewhat different than it was.
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 10:18 AMWhat changed the rave scene? All of the above and none of the above. By that, to me, it went through as natural a pop culture cycle as, say, the beat scene or the hippie scene or the disco scene, all of which I have enjoyed since my coming of age in the 1950s. It's natural. The old school rave scene and community still exists--just see tribes like 13 Moontribe and many others. "Renegade raves" are still out there in the full moon and elsewhere. And--quite frankly--as one in my 71st year, I've never felt excluded or as an intruder in my 20 or so years of participating in them. Like the earlier pop culture phenomena I mentioned above, it was eventually copied, co-opted and commercially packaged into clothing, clubs and bars and such, but since the essential rave experience is a spiritual one, it's still around but where you have to seek it out--much like it was in the beginning. Those who have moved on have done so for a variety of reasons, and those who have stayed are still on the bus or in the church. -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 10:53 AMThanks for your input.
From what I have seen, those who are still around after their late twenties, have stayed for spiritual reasons.
I believe that is why the Psytrance scene is most like the original rave scene, because of it's focus on ecstatic dance
as ritualistic and therapeutic. Around the millennium, the rave scene leveled off from a fad to either a hobby of sorts,
( clubs, concerts, etc..) or back underground to it's core participants, (psytrance, small house parties, camping .)
If one looks at rituals and spiritual practice in many indigenous cultures, we find that elders continue to participate
throughout their lives. It is unimaginable to think of elderly members of a tribe being refused access to ceremonies
or dance, elders are respected for their wisdom in most of these societies. Our hyper-focus on youth has blinded us
to the experience that comes with age and forced many in our society into unrealistic values and images IMHO. -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 11:58 AMWell, I appreciate your point, but personally to me the "Psytrance" scene is like a cult rather than a true spiritual scene....and I've participated in many psytrance scenes....To each his/her own.... -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Fri, April 4, 2008 - 10:27 PMHi Will,
When you say that "the "Psytrance" scene is like a cult rather than a true spiritual scene", what practices/actions that you have seen are you referring to? I ask this in all seriousness because I don't find that the use of labels like "cult" or "spiritual" really helps in describing what actions/activities/practices are taking place and, even more important, why they are either beneficial or not to the participants - or at the very least to the writer (in this case you).
Although I (about to turn 63) and husband Paul (now 70) are rather new to the rave scene, we are definitely longtime dancers to expressive, melodic preferably upbeat (higher energy the better) music of various genres. We find it a shame that at most events that we've attended in AZ (and at clubs too, including many in Toronto), most of the young people appear to require some sort of chemical stimulant or uninhibitor in order to actually get out there and dance. (Love that house piece where the guy asks, "if you aren't goin' to dance, why the f**k did you come?"...)
**Kitty
MoreLife for the rational - morelife.org
Reality based tools for more life in quantity and quality
Self-Sovereign Individual Project - selfsip.org
Self-sovereignty, rational pursuit of optimal lifetime happiness,
individual responsibility, social preferencing & social contracting -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 6:47 AMThanks for your comments, Kitty. You and I have visited this topic before, and I respect and understand your views. Certainly I don't mean "cult" in the full-blown, sometimes negative sense of auto-hypnotized folks giving their unquestioning allegiance to some guru or life style. However, many of my psytrance friends over the years, whether the Goa folks or the others, have created a separate scene for themselves. One of the things I liked about my locale for many years, Santa Cruz, has been its very eclecticism, inclusion and devotion to what you so aptly describe as the "expressive, melodic preferably upbeat (higher energy the better) music of various genres." I, too, have seen that that's not universally so, especially not at many if not most clubs. The outdoor events, especially, I've been part of in California have inevitably been a real contrast to those. And, yes, I love it when house is in the mix--it's frequently the heart or hearth of a joyous night with others, whether you want to call it spiritual or just spirited! -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 7:33 AMWhile there are certainly those in the psytrance scene who are isolationist and shallow, in general, I feel that there is less emphasis on just making money and more on spiritual exploration than in club culture. I also lament the fact that most psytrance events play one genre (psytrance) exclusively, early rave DJ's seemed to be more willing to mix it up. My experience is only with the US community, so I'm sure that other areas have a much different experience. I think there is often a natural tendency to segregate into like-mindedness when a threat is perceived and perhaps that is why you find many psytrancers vying for a separateness. The word rave has been abused for years and some just want to drop it and it's negative connotations altogether, unfortunately there doesn't seem to be much of an alternative. The term "Party" doesn't express the feelings of a rave and clubs are not always raver-friendly. -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Sat, April 5, 2008 - 8:13 AMYes, in some ways perhaps Santa Cruz is an island...or one of the islands...in that respect: the outdoor and other non-club events still happen regularly wit a full spectrum of dance genres/Djs. Come to that scene some time and see what I mean! -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 1:48 PMThe reason why many psytrancers become elitists is become it is indeed spiritual to them and have found it to be a wonderful outlet for the release of outside pressures ("adult life" if you will). As a rave "convert" to the psytrance realm, I experienced much opposition. As a performing dj and electronic music producer, I find myself having to ride the fence between rave/club and psychedelic culture.
The reason for this behavior is simple. Raving as whole has indeed become "pop sub-culture". The media exposure and uncertainty of MDMA use escalated this to a whole new level starting a couple years prior to the new millennium. Psytrancers, as a whole, would rather not like that exposure. Whether it's about psychology or theology, it certainly isn't about consumerism and product placement. Which is where the psytrance scenes definitely resemble the rave scene. Your "elitists" simply don't want that element there.
As for why, at the age of 34, I still keep myself involved with the rave. The music itself has been a part of me long before I discovered "the rave". It is now, with raves, that I have a creative outlet for where the (dance) music can be featured at the forefront. I find myself at middle age (although my crisis happened in my late 20's) in raving. If you look at those who are making the rave their life and successful at it. You'll notice that they are similar in age. -
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This is the maximum depth. Additional responses will not be threaded.
Re: What changed the rave scene?
Fri, April 11, 2008 - 2:03 PMI forgot to chime in on what has changed...
Well, alot has changed while much hasn't. I think the overall attitude of ravers, dj's, and promoters has changed. Consumerism has indeed plagued the rave scene. Kids only go to parties that have dj's they have heard of before. Promoters pack lineups with dozens of dj's playing one hour sets to increase these numbers. The internet has been a blessing and curse. The blessing is that you're now able to reach thousands of people across the globe without ever leaving your bedroom. The curse is that you lose that personal connectivity that was the huge attraction to the rave.
The drugs have evolved. Kids are crossing their drugs making them more lethal. Despite the laws becoming tougher, there are more people dealing those drugs. The "designer" drugs have become more "designed" to create a better high and longer.
Economics come into play. The older raver has a family, job, mortgage to pay. This leave less money on frivolous play. The cost of living has gone up. Thus resulting in the kids spending their money more "wisely". They pick and choose their parties more selectively. They want substances that will give them the most for less.
This brings on rave politics. Despite the thousands who attend the rave (in larger cities like LA), promoters have to keep the party kids' interest. With the "speed mechanics" of the average party kid, this attention span is short. So promoters, dj's, and crews find themselves in harsh competition with each other. -
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Unsu...
Re: What changed the rave scene?
Sat, April 12, 2008 - 12:04 AMvery linear thinking and easy for me to understand how you arrived at your conclusions...you summed it up nicely-i happen to agree-thanks for chiming in Twisted! -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Mon, May 5, 2008 - 7:54 AMmy understanding of the rave scene comes from participation in Native Long Dance and Neo Pagan circles and my ear picked up the same value of spirit dance.
World wide all night dance format is one of our oldest, if not THE oldest form of trancendental worship.
A lot of spirit pursuit through ego and intellect falls away at 4 AM when there's nothing left to do or explain but live the dance, and allow it to compel you thru the nite.
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Sun, July 27, 2008 - 4:25 PMThe same thing that changes ant subculture/movement that is a threat to thje 'status quo'.
It gets watered down, repackaged in a shiny box and sold to mindless consumers/pod people at the mall
Hot Topix , anyone?
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Mon, July 28, 2008 - 10:50 PMsome of my old rave friends grew up and finished school, some have overdosed or died of other things, others found what huey needed settled down and had kids. Some moved on to become bravers (burner /ravers) a couple of us own clubs and keep the nightlife going, some of my friends still travel and DJ.
Me I'm a little of all the above, after over a decade in almost every facet of the scene I'm content to fall back and let the younger kids take ravin and make it into their moment not mine or what we did.
I love the music and the those fleeting eternal moments of my teens and twenties will live with me until the ecstasy rot takes over and the dust poisons the remnants of my record crates.
Nothing happened to rave that I didn't let happen, *shrugs shoulders* nothings permanent, it wouldn't be special if it was.
Damn fine times, I wouldn't give up those memories for anything. But I just find pleasure in just more than musi,c dancing and getting rolling face with my buds. Things like the pleasure on my kids face from a glowstick or watching him "rave dance", make the fact that I'm not a kid raver all that much more bearable.
I'll always be a raver at heart, but stringing days of sunrises together anymore just doesn't have the same appeal. * PLUR *
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Tue, December 23, 2008 - 2:05 PMI agree for the most part, doctor. But sadly an overall negative attitude has plagued the scenes as a whole. I no longer get any pleasure in booking a stellar party because I know that many just wont get it or get it and go out of their way to plagiarize it. I have always been an advocate of practicing what I preach. I remain focused on monthly events done up with proper planning and promotion to attract people. But in the last 5 months, I've only have two go off. Other, younger promoters burn my venues, they slander my name to artist managers, and otherwise do what they can to make themselves look good. Then when I have to cancel (rather not throw a party than do something half-assed), they book that same day with some bullshit lineup and some crappy venue.
I've honestly lost alot of my motivation. I turn 35 this week and to be honest, I'm starting to feel that it's over for me. The ecstasy high has long left me. Going to clubs regularly no longer appeals to me. I love the music and always will, but for me.... it's beginning to feel like the party is over.
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Tue, February 3, 2009 - 4:59 PMWhat really changed the scene for me was 9/11. It seemed to me that there really wasn't a reason to party anymore. In addition, everything became commercial. I mean, you can still hear electronic music playing at some club on any given night to this day. I think also too people realized that they simply can't do drugs forever. There's just more to life than getting messed up.
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 10:59 PMFrom what I've seen in music, that question is a little akin to "What changed the weather?" Basically, NEW weather. For better or worse music changes when something new comes along (i.e. 50s do-wop died with the british invasion. 70's disco died when 80s new wave came along, which in turn went away with Grunge/Nirvana). In the case of Techno and all of it's variants, it would appear to be the incredibly mediocre music of bands like Blink 182, Dave Matthews band, etc. I can't even say these bands suck (in my opinion) since they're not even interesting enough to fall into that category, but I digress. I think once a new sound picks up, people tend to be led off track. -
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Re: What changed the rave scene?
Wed, August 5, 2009 - 11:45 PMChris - The problem is that the generation of ravers today are children the GW Bush generation. They were raised on fear and told to "stay the course." Then the economy crashes thus thinning the line between the have's and have not's. I disagree with the statement that there isn't anything to look forward to. In fact, there's ALOT to look forward to and many causes worth fighting for. Things like this endless war and the economic oppression. In my opinion, there's EVEN MORE to fight for!!! Much like the 60's we have a foriegn war that needs to end. In the 70's our country was coming of age, just as this generation and the Gen X'ers (my generation) are today. In the 80's, commonly called the "me decade", corporations and greed ran rampant. In the 90's, the society began to become apathetic as Y2K approached.
In this new decade of the new millennium, we have all of these things snowballed together!!!
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